Elite Military Units of the Early Warring States: 战国初期精锐部


In this article we will cover some of the first elite units of the Warring States period, with hope that through examining such units and their feats, and their states it will amply deepen our understanding of this chaotic era. The first entry will be a mighty unit of legendary renown, followed by new and revolutionary units that began to be rapidly adopted by all of these competing warring kingdoms. Before the rollout of the full coverage of the Warring States era, let this be a great appetizer to start off this year. Cheers, and read on.


FROM AN AGE OF LORDS TO A BATTLE ROYALE OF KINGS

For new readers, we have extensively covered the previous Spring and Autumn period and its dramatic political order across several previous chapters. Feel free to read through them if you are interested. But a significantly truncated summary of this period is that after Western Zhou's last major king was slain and his capital was sacked by the Rong invaders, the Zhou court then migrated to the east and built up a new capital at Luoyang (hence "Eastern" Zhou.) But the severely weakened Zhou king were now powerless with little land and authority of their own. In the ensuing age, power fell to the local lords who ruled their own domains and city-states as if they were autonomous rulers in their own right. 


The Spring and Autumn era, as it later became known was an age of lords, and the greatest lords of them all, often voted in by a conference of other powerful lords became "Hegemons" and lead the realm's political order. In 3 centuries, 5 great Hegemons rose and molded the age in their state's sway. But at the tail end of it, around the time of the death of Confucius, all out violence erupted and the already divided realm slid to further chaos. What followed was 2 full centuries of total war. In this age, all of the remaining kings were all Hegemons in their own domains, and the late game began, where only 1 king and 1 kingdom will remain standing.

THE HEARTLAND BREAKS: PARTITION OF THE ARCH- HEGEMON


Hand of the Zhou King, Policeman and protector of the realm, the martial duchy of Jin~ descended from a minor branch of the Zhou royal clan ensured that the realm's heartland was stable for some 3 centuries.

Architects and biologists will know of the word "Keystone:" ~a central stone at the summit of an arch, locking the whole together. And if the keystone was ever taken out, the entire form of that arch will irrevocably shatter like a tower of Jenga blocks. The beginning of the Warring States period began with a vital keystone that had held the realm together for 3 centuries taken out.



Unfortunately for Jin, Jin was unique among the major states in a major respect; whereas other states often enfeoffed the cadet branches of the ruling house (blood after all is thicker than water,) Jin often exiled or disempowered its own cadet houses. Instead, powerful ministerial families arose which were given fiefs like cadet houses in other states. This made powerful minister's hereditary clans exceedingly strong and grew only stronger in each new generation, these legalized parallel states ruled and managed parts of Jin as their own hereditary domains, while the Jin Dukes became weaker with each new succession. And in time, the clans of these ministers had no qualms about toppling the Jin Duke at all.

In Jin's last decades, 6 powerful clans ruled the duchy in a cabal and held the Jin Duke as a front man hostage. Eventually such clans became much more brazen and dropped their charade, imprisoning the Jin Duke in the tiny domain of the capital while they partitioned Jin into their own lands. By the time of Jin's full break up, 6 had became only 3 clans, and these clans became the new kingdoms of Wei, Zhao, and Han.

In time, 3 powerful clans split apart Jin from the inside out, deposing the last Jin Dukes and splitting Jin into the states of Wei, Zhao, and Han. The collapse of Jin, which had been the keystone that ensured law and order and political stability in the heartlands would kick start the Warring States era. 

WEI WUZU (WEI MARTIAL TROOPS) 魏武卒

The first major bloodshed of the Warring States period between major kingdoms saw a strange sight: of Qin, the military terror before and after this period, being resoundly bullied in front of the realm's stage, at the hand of the first great philosopher general of this age. According to traditional sources, five hundred thousand Qin warriors would be mustered to avenge this grievous humiliation.


Quality and Efficiency: The state of Wei was one of the best organized and most meritocratic at the time of Jin's partition. It was led by the extremely astute Marquess Wen of Wei who reformed his small, but ably led state with a court full of talented meritorious ministers, aggressively reformed its irrigation and food production sector, and as the head of state: expertly politicked in diplomacy and rapid expansionary wars. The end result was a lean but highly efficient state and war machine that punched far above its weigh. His aces were the elite core of wei zuzu (lit, "Wei Martial Troops".)

Art by dadecaxx


Wei zuzu 魏武卒 (lit, "Wei Martial Troop") An approximate reconstruction. Wei wuzu were the strategic genius philosopher-general Wu Qi's creation, an elite and versatile core of heavily armored Wei infantry that is equipped simultaneously as halberdier, crossbowmen, and sword and shield (or pavise) infantry. "Martial" in this instance not only denoted their role as warriors but their proficiency in many martial arts- as such were like weapon masters. 


Rigorously selected without distinction of birth from the best of various camps of Wei warriors and given the best armors that covered most of their bodies, they were capable of marching 40–50 km in one day while equipped with heavy armor, a helmet, a halberd or pike, swords, a shield, a crossbow with 50 bolts, and three days of rations. Wuzu as a distinction generally also referred to armored and professional soldiers of the era. They were rigorously drilled. From their performance, we will soon see why even the best of the realm had much to fear from them. 

A versatile crack force that could transform into halberdier, crossbowmen, or swordsmen as needed and also provide shield screens if they came under heavy fire. And despite their expensive armor, their rigorous training in long marching (with days of rations) allowed them to threaten afar and redeploy even during extreme duress with great order. Aside from the unit's immense cost, training and upkeep, it was one that virtually has no weaknesses. 

THE BLACK HUMILAION OF QIN- DUEL FOR HEXI


The wei wuzu would soon embark on a campaign that immortalized them in Chinese history. Under the patronage of the astute Marquess Wen and the watchful personal command of the bold Legalist philosopher general Wu Qi- this unit was swiftly launched as the vanguard of Wei's expansionary wars. Their enemy in this matter should by no means be trifled with~ both in the previous centuries nor the ensuing centuries. Wei would throw the wei wuzu as a iron- mailed fist that squarely gave the nearby state of Qin a black eye. Wei wuzu thus made its name punching out the best of the realm's soldiers in the previous centuries.





The Hexi Corridor (Red)- the traditional geopolitical flashpoint between Jin and Qin. With Jin partitioned between Wei, Zhao, and Han (with Wei being the strongest and redirecting the mutually suspicious Zhao and Han toward the 3 central state's external enemies) Wei began to redirect the 3 states to fight Qi to the east and Qin to the west, repelling the Di- steppe nomad led state of Zhongshan in the process. In the west, the Hexi Corridor was of vital strategic importance. 


A key stretch to the west of the Yellow River's shores, the region is both easily defended by a narrow mountain pass and also possessed very fertile farmlands. Lands so fertile and great for raising horses it would vitally bolster the possessor's population and economy. Furthermore, whoever possessed the rich pass would have the initiative to invade the other while having their flank secured by steep mountains. 


Warring States era lamellar helmet with one piece visor and 工 shaped face slit. The 2 cheek pieces are secured by a hooked latch


In 409 BC, Marquis Wen of Wei appointed Wu Qi as the commander-in-chief to conquer Hexi from Qin. According to records, Wu Qi led Wei Wuzu march south and northern in war, during this period, he fought 76 times with the armies of the princes, winning 64 times, and the rest were draws." He attacked Hangu Pass to the west, fought countless battles with the Qin state, and seized more than 500 miles of Hexi and great 5 walled fortresses from Qin. 


During Wu Qi's tenure as a general, he wore the same clothes and ate the same food as the most inferior soldiers, slept without laying bedding, marched without riding in carts and horses, and shared joys and sorrows with the soldiers by carrying bundled food himself. With this rapid series of victories, Wu Qi was appointed the governor of Xihe (West of the River, Hexi means the same but spelled inversely meaning "River's West.") In some 20 years Qin counterattack many times, but all failed at the hands of Wu Qi.

During his tenure as a respected governor and general Wu Qi once asked the successor of Marquess Wen, Marquess Wu to hold a celebration banquet for the soldiers, so that those who made the most meritorious service would sit in the front row and be given the most precious food and tableware; great benefits would be conferred upon their families, and if they fell, annual condolences and honors should be paid by Wei's great ministers. This mechanically consistent system of upward mobility ensured that Wei soldiers were always led by proven and battle tested commanders.


Qin was grievously humiliated by this strings of defeats and the loss of a vital portion of their GDP from this fertile highly taxable region. To prevent further encroachments, Qin built a series of fortresses between their new borders, however for 20 years they would never forget this outrage. When Marquess Wen of Wei died, and around this time a new ambitious Duke Hui ascended the Qin throne, Qin instituted a massive national level muster to avenge this grievance. 


500,000 VS 50,000 THE TITANIC REMATCH: BATTLE OF YIN JIN

The muster called for males of fighting age to be levied and drilled across the whole swath of Qin and 500,000 soldiers were mobilized (definitely exaggerated in the traditional records, but likely still very lopsided) and invaded Xihe County in 389 BC According to Qin laws, men who have reached 16 must register for military service and are part of the role call pool until they are 60. The service period is one year. Funded and led by warriors, Qin had long been a military state and every male citizen is both farmer as well as soldier material.  Answering the tide of invaders, tens of thousands of Wei troops in Hexi immediately put on armor and volunteered to fight.


The Qin army went straight to the strategically important fortress city at Yin Jin (in modern Shaanxi). This fortress guards the east-west traffic arteries, and its vitally important. Wu Qi possessed 50,000 wei wuzu against the Qin army and requested further reinforcements to shore up the Wei position. Marquis Wu agreed and sent 500 additional chariots and 3,000 cavalry. 

The fortress's city's walls provided a great force multiplier against the Qin besiegers and the defenders braved hails of arrows and repeated waves of Qin assaults. Unfortunately, the sources left out much of the details of this battle's tactics and order of battle. It was recorded that before the climactic battle against Qin, Wu Qi advised and ordered the three part of his army to: "All officials and soldiers should go with me to fight against the enemy, no matter whether chariots 车骑 or foot guards 徒. If the enemy chariots cannot be chariots, riders cannot be riders, and foot guards cannot guard, the army is broken and utterly useless."


In short Wu Qi knew that despite the vastly lopsided numerical disadvantage, he has quality over quantity, and his quality will overmatch any of the Qin's best, since he knew Qin's real veteran fighting force is much more even, and the rest are merely bolstered with inexperienced armed levies. In destroying the Qin chariot vanguard and destroying its accompanying noble's foot guards, (paired and trailed behind their lord as a rally point and pit crew.) Wei would have decapitated Qin's best, then they'd have no problem easily overmatching the rest off the field.

The next day, the Qin and Wei armies fought. Due to the high morale and long discipline of the Wei army, the Qin vanguard likely suffered massive losses. After this was done and continual application of pressure, the morale of the rest of the Qin army broke. Unable to contend with the Wei, the Qin then withdrew after the gory 2nd humiliation. And here, wei wuzu's reputation was forever made.


Wu Qi was feted and celebrated far within Wei for his miraculous victory, and Qin was publicly disgraced before the whole realm. This second, near mortal wound was so calamitous that the distraught Duke Hui of Qin died only 2 years later, having ruled only those 2 years. Qin was so shaken to it's core that it would not have dared to face off against Wei for Hexi for the next 20 years.

However this lopsided heroic victory also destroyed Wu Qi in Wei as well, because of this victory, many other ministers within Wei became jealous and felt threatened by Wu. In time they began a sustained slander campaign that slowly turned Marquess Wu to fear Wu. Eventually, fearing for his life, Wu Qi escaped Xihe County and fled Wei reportedly with bitter tears. Wu Qi then wandered across the various kingdoms of the era until he came to the employment of the King of Chu. 

There, he again tried to create a highly meritocratic and legalist state, drastically curtailing the expenditures of the highly decadent and corrupt Chu nobles with his Chu King's backing. Predictably, again like in Wei Chu became much more efficient in war and proved itself in battle. However, when his patron died, the Chu nobles had Wu Qi assassinated. All of Wu Qi's reforms in Chu were then reverted afterwards. But though Wu Qi's life was taken, his deeds, and that of his wei wuzu's lived on for the next 2,500 years.


ARMORED HEAVY CHARIOTS 车兵


Warring States era chariots, by this time both the horses and the riders were almost always heavily armored, with thick lacquered hide armors protecting the horse's front and sides heavy armor protecting the riders. Material evidence excavated from the Tomb of the Marquise Yi of Zeng. According to contemporary treatises,  hide armor were extracted from the tough hides of water buffalos, and when lacquered could block almost any blows. For the best soldiers expensive lacquered rhinoceros hide was used. Rhinos had long lived in what is central China and still lived during this era. Rhinoceros hide armor- laced together with silk cords were impervious to iron weapons and could prove to be as resistant as steel plates.

ARMORED CHARIOTEERS 


Charioteer's heavy armor- black lacquered hide stitched together with red silk. Hide armor during this period varied from ox hide and more expensive hides such as rhino that are almost definitely reserved for the aristocrats. The boots of some aristocrats are fashioned from white deer skin.



The troops riding the chariot (chebing 车兵, lit. "chariot troops") were protected by corselets and therefore called "armored soldiers" (jiashi 甲士). Their mode of fighting required extensive training, not only to achieve mastery in hitting the enemy, but also to thrust into the heart of his formation and kill enemies and capture their officers. As chariots became heavier, chariots were manned by three men, the left one fighting with bow and arrow, the right one with spear and halberd, and the central person steering the vehicle. The warhorses were sometimes armored with prized lacquered hide armor. Lacquered hide armors from this period sometimes included those made from rhino hides, which were nearly impervious to slash and piercing blows.


Threat range of a chariot. In this graph 2 opposing chariots rushes to engage each other (the lancers are located on the right side of the craft) however- it also demonstrates the blocking potential of the chariots as the chariots also blocks the movement of the vehicle directly in front of them. However chariots for much of the previous centuries were only a noble's craft, and like New Kingdom Egypt or the Mitanni Empire manned only by small elite core of armored nobles whose archery and riding skills were honed for their entire lives. By this era, chariots and their accompanying footguard's size and deployment increased substantially.

FOOT GUARDS



Each chariot was usually accompanied by a certain number of foot guards called  tubing 徒兵 (lit. "follower guards"/ "Trabants," or "ground troops" lujun 陆军) , it would be their job to exploit any breakthroughs the chariots made. However the number of infantry guards were not fixed. They ranged between 10 and 100. Ten footmen was the usual number of troops accompanying a chariot during the early Spring and Autumn period, and 75 was a common size in the late Warring States period for light chariots. The army of Chu used 100 persons per chariot, but this was not necessarily adopted by other states. The Terracotta Army soldiers of the Qin army had varying numbers of foot guards for their chariots. 


This bronze blade was once attached to the axle of a chariot wheel, and is known as a wei. It was used to keep enemy foot soldiers away from the chariot.

CROSSBOWMEN/ BOWMEN 弩兵

An armored bowman. Crossbowmen similarly equipped also became proliferated across many of the warring kingdoms. Once heavy armor were almost exclusively only afforded by the aristocrats on chariots and their accompanying footguards, with most levy's armors consisted of a simple frontal chest piece and a shield, by the Warring State's period, -with the implementation of greatly reformed drafts, taxation, and creation of state armory and weapon smithies, even low born soldiers began to be drilled and equipped as professional soldiers. 

Various Qin Terracotta Army armor types.

Though not particularly singled out in legendary named units, during this era crossbow became widely adopted across nearly all of the warring kingdoms. Originally invented during the Spring and Autumn era, the crossbow was a weapon that democratized killing power even to freshly trained peasant levies. 

With only 2 weeks of training or less, rows of crossbowmen could deliver volleys that ends the life of whole vanguards of aristocrats who had been trained in weapons their whole lives.

Another element was the proliferation of steel weapons. China's iron age began much later than many of the other ancient civilizations, began in only around 9th century BC, however by the 4th century BC they have discovered steel forging techniques with temperatures reaching 1537 Celsius and casting liquefied steel weapons en mass with molds. This technique would not be matched in Europe until 1800 years later. 

By the late Warring State's era both Qin and Chu had vast legions of armored crossbowmen.
It became a highly favored weapon by all the greatest kingdoms of this age.

ZHAO CAVALRY ARCHERS 赵国骑兵

Render by Wang Lanye-十七

With the Warring States period, cavalry arrived in Chinese warfare for the first time. Although cavalry had already been adopted by other great ancient civilization centuries ago in places such as the Neo-Assyrian Empire, by the Warring States period cavalry was adopted in Chinese warfare and they quickly took root. 


When the first of these true cavalry were deployed they were extremely decisive and became an elite unmatchable force that none could contend with. The first such state to adopt them was Zhao, and it was noted with astonishment by all of its neighbors.



Early cavalry archer, dressed and armored in the style of the northern nomadic neighbors to China's north. The state of Zhao had centuries of seasoned encounters fighting invaders from such hosts and were no strangers to fighting on the open steppes. Once they were excellent charioteers serving Jin, when they partitioned Jin with Wei and Zhao, they copied the new nomadic fighting style using cavalry archers (pre- stirrup) and swiftly became one of the most successful states of the Warring States era. When Wei weakened, Zhao swiftly became the strongest of the 3 former Jin states, their power was such that they would became an arch rival to Qin in the last violent days of this age.


Of the 3 Jin successor states, Zhao was a frontier backwater that is sparsely populated. The frontier was militarily overshadowed by the efficient and well disciplined Wei and poorer than the smaller and middling Han, who took advantage of the exorbitant trade of the rich central states. Zhao remained relatively weak until the military reforms of King Wuling of Zhao (325-299 BC). The soldiers of Zhao were ordered to dress like their nomadic northern neighbors and to replace war chariots with cavalry archers (胡服骑射; húfúqíshè). The Zhao military dress code (not off duty) and fighting tactic were thus significantly reformed to be like that of their horse riding enemies and soon these reforms worked marvelously.


The fatal decision proved decisive on the battle field. The replacement of chariots with mounted cavalry, and at a significantly larger percentage than the other states of the era made the Zhao war machine both unpredictable on the battlefield and virtually unable to be pursued. A significant angle was also the economic factor, chariots at large were as a whole expensive to create, staffed, and also only had limited usage on the battlefield.  They were works of intense craftsmanship, needed to be staffed with archers and coach drivers who had a life time of training, wore armor ^ that were cripplingly expensive to make and replace, and in uneven terrain out of flatlands were useless. By contrast, a cavalryman, albeit still requiring a long period of training and horsemanship could be much easily replaced and fielded in much greater numbers.


With these decisive advantages, Zhao began a rapid series of expansions of its own and quickly overawed both Wei and Han. After King Wuling's reforms Zhao conquered the nearby Di- led (a nomadic steppe people) kingdom of Zhongshan after a prolonged war, and annexing territory from its neighboring states of Wei, Yan, and Qin. Zhao eventually became so bold that they rapidly advanced into what is today's Inner Mongolia's grassland steppes and set up a loop of fortresses around key horse pastures to make the region a much needed stable for the state's cavalry. Zhao would build a long series of walls covering this loop and displacing many of the nomadic tribes from this region, forcing them to flee north. 

Di 狄- People, collectively called the "Northern Di" a steppe people that roamed the lands of what is today's upper Ordos Loop and northern Shanxi and Hebei. Although initially described as nomadic, they seem to have practiced a mixed pastoral, agricultural, and hunting economy. A Di- Shaman (above) with masked helmet and hand dagger axe. Di- artifacts, from the later Di states in early Warring States period. 


The effect was such that the rest of the 6 kingdoms began to create their own imitation cavalry as well. Several great Zhao generals rose to prominence during this period and bitterly contended with great Qin generals such as Bai Qi. Zhao would remain a strong power even after the battle of Changping and until the unification war of Qin Shihuang.



GEOPOLITICAL SCRAMBLE- A CLASH OF KINGS

It is here that our brief coverage of the early broad changes of the Warring States warfare would end. We now return to the era right around the partition of Jin and its unravelling at the hands of its 3 great ministerial clans. And though early on, far sighted states such as Wei was able to cleverly avoid strife between the former Jin comrades and redirect their expansion outwards, in time, their fragile partnership broke down. 


What followed all the way until the wars of Qin unification was an endless series of war between Wei, Zhao, and Han. Between the 3 of them it would be an endless cycle of betrayal, war, and alliance, then betrayal again as each 3 jockeyed for power, yet were unable to totally eradicate the other. Maps of the land that was Jin became constantly redrawn, sometimes a dozens times in one year as the three former "Jins" turned what was the stable heartland of Zhou China into a cartoonish dust cloud of fighting and screaming. With the collapse of the center, they inadvertently set off a feeding frenzy from all of the nearby great powers. The constant total war of the 3 "Jins" would soon turn the whole realm into war as well.


QIN BEGAN TO APPRECIATE LEGALISM 

Those who had read up on Wu Qi's life, and his brilliant exploits, and his wasteful killing at the court of Chu would have likely lamented his fate, but more over, all the things that he did got right that was otherwise wasted on Chu and his age. However, what Wu Qi achieved~ in the wake of his death ironically took root in the state that he nearly crippled. 20 years after their bitter crushing at Yin Jin, Qin revenged itself savagely upon a much weakened Wei in 366BC and retook Hexi. After transforming this vital pass into a gate pass for the Qin, the initiative returned to Qin and they began to aggressively meddle in central state's affairs. 

Deeply impressed by the efficiency and miraculous achievement of Wei, Qin in time would adopt Legalism wholesale and transform their state into a highly meritocratic war machine. 

Qin would not be alone in their attempts to meddle and mold the central 3 "Jins" to suit their political agendas. For at this precise moment of Qin's ambitious reconstitution, another power rose (or should be more correctly put) rerose again in the shining east~ Qi. It had been almost 300 years after the Hegemony of Spring and Autumn's Duke Huan of Qi and nearly 700 since Jiang Ziya toppled the Shang with King Wu of Zhou. Now the duchy, under new management of the Tian 田 clan who had displaced the former old ducal house, had made Qi into a Kingdom and they its kings. Soon after, two poles began to dominate Warring State's bloody politics.

THE TWO POLES- EAST & WEST 




King Wei of Qi was one of the most brilliant and ambitious rulers of the next phase of Warring State. By this era, most of the great surviving states had made themselves into full right kings and competed against each others as fully elevated kingdoms. King Wei's dynamic rule, and attempt to wrangle the 3 "Jins" under Qi's sway would pave way for the next round of great wars in this age. And Qi's cold war frenemy relationship with Qin would definite this age both in war and in peace. The age of kings had truly came.


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Comments

Der said…
Thanks for this great article!

The Warring States Period is the most interesting period in Chinese history in my opinion. Great technological, political, economic, social and philosophical developments in ancient China. And the period was contemporaneous with my favorite period in Western Antiquity, the Age of Alexander the Great and the early Roman Republic. Awesome! In 333 BCE the State of Qin was invading and conquering Ba and Shu while the State of Chu was invading and conquering Yueh while at the same time Alexander was invading and conquering Egypt from the Persians. And interesting how the Roman Republic was very much like a Western version of a Warring State, with mass conscription, huge armies, centralized bureaucracies and emphasis on heavy infantry. In you opinion, which armies were stronger, Republic Rome's legions or Qin State's war machine?
Dragon's Armory said…
Thanks your your effusive response and interest. Yes this is was the era which defined much of Chinese statecraft and by process of elimination in this war of supremacy the states that centralized, has a strong proto- military industrial complex, and a massive bureaucracy won out. Qin won out because its highly militaristic culture had always been predisposed towards this. Qin was praised for the almost lack of scribe ministers who were prone to engage in fruitless and moot debates and court intrigues, it's citizenry (soldier/ citizenry) who had spent centuries fighting the Rong were naturally obedient to law and aheres to a militaristic hierarchy of command. And all of these advantages were cited by none other than Wu Qi himself (or attributed to him.) Them cornering the Sichuan kingdoms and vastly expanding its natural resources pretty much allowed life- long strongmen warrior kings like King Zhaoxiang to spend his life crippling each of the state that stood a chance against Qin hegemony. By the latter portion of his reign it was almost preordained Qin would rein in supreme.
Dragon's Armory said…
As for the 2nd part of your question, idk, Im never huge on "Who would win" sort of school yard discussions. I avoided them in school when it was between idk Goku or Superman, (and now Omni man and Homelander or Saitama etc etc etc) because it's the entertainment of things that never had a chance to meet and fight. And I look on them with the same attitude toward alternative history etc, namely that a lot of debate surrounds the predisposition of the fans and it's very rare that the less exposed side would get a fair rap. Exhibit A, any and everything about China in western history, which always fetishize almost only about Romans, knights, Samurai, Vikings (and now after K&G) maybe Mongols.

China had lasted longer than Rome as an enduring civilization, but every time among western fan boys China would loose regardless, despite the face China did to the Xiongnu what Rome never could do to the Germanics. Also nvm the fact Constantinople was taken and at no time never rose as "Rome" again. literally undone in battle and even in much of culture. Similarly medieval armies are always painted as superior because of "Valor" even though China held on for over 6 decades against the Mongols at their strongest while most European powers'+ their kingdom's armies got blow to bits right after 1 battle in first contact with the Mongols, the "Honorable" Samurai would have chopped Chinese armies to pieces in the heads of incel weebs Daimyo enjoyers everywhere- yet for all the times there were samurai, most of the time they preferred to keep their heads down and not anger China out of great mortal fear. Lest we forgot how the Ashikaga ingratiated themselves to the Ming, the Tokugawa kept their distance etc. As for the Vikings? Pur-lease, I'd actually rank the Tanguts of Xixia as more powerful and they were contemporaries to the Vikings. Normans and maybe Norman- Sicilians maybe, but until Vikings had vast ranks of armored cavalry and Latinized bureaucracy they are lesser than Chams in many respects. At least Champa built vast monuments that still stood today.
Dragon's Armory said…
However- I will put forth my thought process in this hypnosis. Owing to the size of the Qin and its populace, Qin had a head start, both as a state with great self conception but later also in populace. Rome and Qin actually began somewhat close, both were founded around 9-8th century BC. But Qin was militaristic from the start, while Rome was still many aligned hill dwelling families at the mercy of Kings that it chafed under. Scrappy maybe, with a hardy edge, but not unified and consecrated in self conception until it became a republic led by patriotic oligarchs that led and served. By the Warring States period Qin and Rome were both rapidly expanding with a powerful army.

But early in this period I would say Qin is stronger, it has more people, a proven war machine of 3 previous centuries, that easily swiped Wu out at their prime, and then contended with the Jin and an muster some half a million when needed. While Rome was getting there, it has not full conquered the Italian penninsula, but once that is done, Rome will be greatly empowered. Rome's citizen army's muster and equipment are not to be taken lightly either. Qin will have some advantages, steel weapons, massed crossbow etc, while Rome in other areas, earlier adoption of true cavalry. Both would be equipping their soldiers in heavy iron armor etc. But I still would say Qin would won out even considering the disadvantage of its cavalry. By the time of the Punic Wars it would be more different, by then Rome would have something the Qin could not compete with, some of the best navy in the world and making that navy in staggering numbers even after great calamities, but Qin would have became much stronger too for by the By Scorpio Africanus and Hannibal's time in 2nd Punic War Qin already reigned supreme and could level whole of Qin China.

Rome would be much stronger than Chinese polities in naval warfare, owing to their imitation of the Greco-Phonecian ships~ which were the world's best at the time and were relied on by the Persian empire and then shamelessly copied by the Romans to great advantage. Rome was able to rapidly replenish it even after not just 1 but TWO major calamities that killed over hundreds of thousands of their sailors in freakish accidents. Even as initiates they punch far above their weight.

As for land battles, I would rate the 2 as comparable.
Dragon's Armory said…
My honest answer is that I honestly do not know the outcome. My consistent answer? "It Depends."

It would depend on: by location, proximity to the side's hearlands, etc. And honestly? It's a total toss up and situational. Rome has advantages in better true cavalry (I think by Han China would have superior cavalry and have some of the world's best) but not before during the Qin. But Qin would have no problem suffering initial losses and quickly bounce back with blocks of well drilled and well equipped troops~ especially for defense of its homeland territories. It would also have no problem speeding up its cavalry arm when facing the Roman cavalry either. Despite the fact that Rome did not have excellent cavalry until Diocletian and late Rome I still say Qin would have some catch up. With this said, I still maintain it will be a toss up. This is not to say that Qin "could" not handle Roman way of fighting either. During the Han the Han faced a western army whose infantry was deployed in a "Fish scale" formation, like those of legionaries during a siege, but the Han had no problem easily destroying such an army and capturing its soldiers. (Some historians in both the east and west hypothesized those soldiers were Carassus's Parthian captured legionaires impressed for service abroad but recent DNA showed they are not in fact Romans) Regardless, this is just to show that it's more of a toss up.

Conclusion, a toss up. If his happened near Qin's border Rome win some battles but have no way to win the war, if this happened near Rome Qin might win some battles, but again, not the war. Both state might achieve some initial forays but have no way to absorb the other. And owing to their distances unable to do much. Battles are meaningless if they serve no purposes.
Der said…
Thank you for the in depth response. I agree with you, counterfactual comparisons with other cultures can grow tiresome. But it is fun to speculate. Lord Shang Yang of Qin was a near contemporary of Alexander, it would have been interesting what a conversation between them would be like. The Warring States produced some of the best generals in Chinese history, and it happened at the same time as the Western version of the Warring States, namely Rome's rise and its wars to take over the Med area with the Punic and Macedonian Wars. What would Bai Qi have thought about Hannibal and vice versa? in fact, I think Hannibal live exactly at the same time as the general who helped to found the Han dynasty, Han Xin.
Der said…
But back to the Warring States.

The Qin State always claimed its wars was to punish rebellious lords. Qin was very conservative in many ways and was proud of its connection with the Zhou Dynasty. It's interesting to note besides Yan, the Qin State's royal house was the only legitimately enfeoffed vassal lord of the Zhou Dynasty. All the other states (other than Yan) were usurpers (the 3 Jin and Tian family run Qi) or barbarian origin (Chu, Wu, Yueh, Zhongshan) who were not legitimately connected with the Zhou. I think Qin saw their unification wars as a sort of holy mission.
Der said…
I look forward to your next article. I've always been a fan of the Qi State ... the first Hegemon state that fell and rose again under new management, namely the Tian clan. Interesting how the Tian took over the Qi state so easily, with its cadet branches of Chen and Sun. Qi didn't share the fate of Jin did it? the Tian took over Qi in once piece and took the state to new heights. I hope your next article goes into how the Tian clan slowly over generations took over Qi and stole it from the ancient Jiang lineage.
Der said…
Oh, one question, is it true the royal family of Qin and the ministerial family of Zhao were of the same surname of Ying? were they directly related?